I may get banned and definately flamed for this, it has to be said. These players are young men who need to learn how to win at the highest level. A lack of D intensity and discipline on O cannot be blamed solely on players, especially seniors. Those traits are obviously something that the players feel comfortable displaying, for whatever reason. Pastner needs to figure out how to lead men, how to command their respect, and how to maintain discipline and intensity within and throughout the program. It seems that these super-talented players are playing at their own terms, not Pastner's. They take plays and even games off, just to suit their whims. This is Pastner's biggest challenge, and I have a my theories why he continues to struggle with these issues year after year, and it has much to do with how he recruits.

Apparently, Pastner promises too much to these 5-star recruits to get them to come to Memphis (playing time, freedom in/from the system, etc.). Pastner seems to be a firm believer that most of his job is recruiting, and that the talent alone will win the ball games. He may have a very high B-Ball IQ, but it matters very little if his players don't listen and take heed. When he promises high school players the world to come to Memphis, it becomes about the players, rather than the school and the team, which morphs over time into challenges with respect and his authority. It has nothing to do with entourages, "Memphis Players", or anything like that. These players just don't respect his coaching style or approach, and it shows. Now how he turns that around is to first define what he wants to do in building a program. What kind of Offense does he want to run, what kind of D? Then recruit players to fit his system, then get those players to understand that his system must be executed with intensity and perfection, and playing time will be based strictly on execution of the system in practice and in games. Don't promise any recruit playing time (which I think is why he keeps running the 4 guard line up at the expense of developing a solid bench, he promised Dixon the playing time).

All in all, I think we as fans need to temper our expectations of a Sweet 16 run out of this team. Pastner hasn't figured out how to coach these players (seems like a broken record as we've been saying the same thing for years). Perhaps an NIT run would get the administration to stop giving him raises, and hopefully Pastner will start fielding offers from other schools. Because he won't be a good coach for at least another 10 years, and we can't afford to wait on him. Time to cut bait.

Yep, we're ranked and winning....clearly time to fire the coach. Another 10 years?! Seriously?! He has improved significantly each season. Those who don't see it just don't want to.

pony up the money for the buyout and you can have a say.

Great thread. A little wordy, but A+ material.

(02-03-2014 01:27 PM)fsquid Wrote:  pony up the money for the buyout and you can have a say.

Yep.

(02-03-2014 01:25 PM)Collegiate Black Man Wrote:  I may get banned and definintely flamed for this, it ahs to be said. These players are young men who need to learn how to win at the highest level. A lack of D intensity and discipline on O cannot be blamed solely on players, especially seniors. Those traits are obviously something that the players feel comfortable displaying, for whatever reason. Pastner needs to figure out how to lead men, how to command their respect, and how to maintain discipline and intensity within and throughout the program. It seems that these super-talented players are playing at their own terms, not Pastner's. They take plays and even games off, just to suit their whims. This is Pastner's biggest challenge, and I have a my theories why he continues to struggle with these issues year after year, and it has much to do with how he recruits.

Apparently, Pastner promises too much to these 5-star recruits to get them to come to Memphis (playing time, freedom in/from the system, etc.). Pastner seems to be a firm believer that most of his job is recruiting, and that the talent alone will win the ball games. He may have a very high B-Ball IQ, but it matters very little if his players don't listen and take heed. When he promises high school players the world to come to Memphis, it becomes about the players, rather than the school and the team, which morphs over time into challenges with respect and his authority. It has nothing to do with entourages, "Memphis Players", or anything like that. These players just don't respect his coaching style or approach, and it shows. Now how he turns that around is to first define what he wants to do in building a program. What kind of Offense does he want to run, what kind of D? Then recruit players to fit his system, then get those players to understand that his system must be executed with intensity and perfection, and playing time will be based strictly on execution of the system in practice and in games. Don't promise any recruit playing time (which I think is why he keeps running the 4 guard line up at the expense of developing a solid bench, he promised Dixon the playing time).

All in all, I think we as fans need to temper our expectations of a Sweet 16 run out of this team. Pastner hasn't figured out how to coach these players (seems like a broken record as we've been saying the same thing for years). Perhaps an NIT run would get the administration to stop giving him raises, and hopefully Pastner will start fielding offers from other schools. Because he won't be a good coach for at least another 10 years, and we can't afford to wait on him. Time to cut bait.

10 years? Really? I have seen quite a bit of improvement in Pastner's in-game management over the past 2-3 years, so I anticipate that it will continue to get better. As for his ability to motivate players, perhaps it has to do with how his interactions with this particular group of seniors began. Maybe they formed their dynamics in that first year and it made it difficult to change. Maybe this group of seniors is an emotionally fragile bunch. Maybe we should hold off on getting rid a coach that has won 70% of his games including two Top 25 wins this year (neither on our home court) and everyone around the country views as one of the up and coming coaches.

Maybe.

Firing a coach who has his team ranked, is graduating players, is considered 'clean' by the NCAA and basketball community, and doesn't have any players getting in trouble.

This tells the next coaching prospects 'Don't come near Memphis....we're a bunch of delusional MFers with unrealistic standards"

(02-03-2014 01:30 PM)transitt Wrote:  Firing a coach who has his team ranked, is graduating players, is considered 'clean' by the NCAA and basketball community, and doesn't have any players getting in trouble.

This tells the next coaching prospects 'Don't come near Memphis....we're a bunch of delusional MFers with unrealistic standards"

yep, when was the last ranked team to can their coach for basketball reasons? Tubby Smith from UK?

(02-03-2014 01:31 PM)fsquid Wrote:  

(02-03-2014 01:30 PM)transitt Wrote:  Firing a coach who has his team ranked, is graduating players, is considered 'clean' by the NCAA and basketball community, and doesn't have any players getting in trouble.

This tells the next coaching prospects 'Don't come near Memphis....we're a bunch of delusional MFers with unrealistic standards"

yep, when was the last ranked team to can their coach for basketball reasons? Tubby Smith from UK?

Tubby beat them to it and quit.

A lack of D intensity and discipline on O cannot be blamed solely on players, especially seniors.

Enough said. What an ignorant, damn fewl.

(02-03-2014 01:25 PM)Collegiate Black Man Wrote:  I may get banned and definintely flamed for this, it ahs to be said. These players are young men who need to learn how to win at the highest level. A lack of D intensity and discipline on O cannot be blamed solely on players, especially seniors. Those traits are obviously something that the players feel comfortable displaying, for whatever reason. Pastner needs to figure out how to lead men, how to command their respect, and how to maintain discipline and intensity within and throughout the program. It seems that these super-talented players are playing at their own terms, not Pastner's. They take plays and even games off, just to suit their whims. This is Pastner's biggest challenge, and I have a my theories why he continues to struggle with these issues year after year, and it has much to do with how he recruits.

Apparently, Pastner promises too much to these 5-star recruits to get them to come to Memphis (playing time, freedom in/from the system, etc.). Pastner seems to be a firm believer that most of his job is recruiting, and that the talent alone will win the ball games. He may have a very high B-Ball IQ, but it matters very little if his players don't listen and take heed. When he promises high school players the world to come to Memphis, it becomes about the players, rather than the school and the team, which morphs over time into challenges with respect and his authority. It has nothing to do with entourages, "Memphis Players", or anything like that. These players just don't respect his coaching style or approach, and it shows. Now how he turns that around is to first define what he wants to do in building a program. What kind of Offense does he want to run, what kind of D? Then recruit players to fit his system, then get those players to understand that his system must be executed with intensity and perfection, and playing time will be based strictly on execution of the system in practice and in games. Don't promise any recruit playing time (which I think is why he keeps running the 4 guard line up at the expense of developing a solid bench, he promised Dixon the playing time).

All in all, I think we as fans need to temper our expectations of a Sweet 16 run out of this team. Pastner hasn't figured out how to coach these players (seems like a broken record as we've been saying the same thing for years). Perhaps an NIT run would get the administration to stop giving him raises, and hopefully Pastner will start fielding offers from other schools. Because he won't be a good coach for at least another 10 years, and we can't afford to wait on him. Time to cut bait.

I did the legwork for you and CUSA_NEWS.

Black coaches with votes in the current poll...

28 Shaka Smart - VCU
34 Johnny Jones - LSU
36 Cumonzo - UT

Cumonzo has beaten a LOT of ranked teams at UT. IF we could somehow manage to hire him our half court offense would be off the charts good. Even if we have to pay UT a $10 million buyout he would be well worth it.

My second choice would be Bruce Pearl. He isn't black, but he has a fake tan and when I see a fake tan, the first thing that I think of is quality.

(02-03-2014 01:25 PM)Collegiate Black Man Wrote:  I may get banned and definintely flamed for this, it ahs to be said. These players are young men who need to learn how to win at the highest level. A lack of D intensity and discipline on O cannot be blamed solely on players, especially seniors. Those traits are obviously something that the players feel comfortable displaying, for whatever reason. Pastner needs to figure out how to lead men, how to command their respect, and how to maintain discipline and intensity within and throughout the program. It seems that these super-talented players are playing at their own terms, not Pastner's. They take plays and even games off, just to suit their whims. This is Pastner's biggest challenge, and I have a my theories why he continues to struggle with these issues year after year, and it has much to do with how he recruits.

Apparently, Pastner promises too much to these 5-star recruits to get them to come to Memphis (playing time, freedom in/from the system, etc.). Pastner seems to be a firm believer that most of his job is recruiting, and that the talent alone will win the ball games. He may have a very high B-Ball IQ, but it matters very little if his players don't listen and take heed. When he promises high school players the world to come to Memphis, it becomes about the players, rather than the school and the team, which morphs over time into challenges with respect and his authority. It has nothing to do with entourages, "Memphis Players", or anything like that. These players just don't respect his coaching style or approach, and it shows. Now how he turns that around is to first define what he wants to do in building a program. What kind of Offense does he want to run, what kind of D? Then recruit players to fit his system, then get those players to understand that his system must be executed with intensity and perfection, and playing time will be based strictly on execution of the system in practice and in games. Don't promise any recruit playing time (which I think is why he keeps running the 4 guard line up at the expense of developing a solid bench, he promised Dixon the playing time).

All in all, I think we as fans need to temper our expectations of a Sweet 16 run out of this team. Pastner hasn't figured out how to coach these players (seems like a broken record as we've been saying the same thing for years). Perhaps an NIT run would get the administration to stop giving him raises, and hopefully Pastner will start fielding offers from other schools. Because he won't be a good coach for at least another 10 years, and we can't afford to wait on him. Time to cut bait.

I think your opinion is ****. How is TB doing at KS. How is AB doing at UT. Your opinion carries the weight of a simianus.

Wow. What a load of crap.

(02-03-2014 01:38 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(02-03-2014 01:25 PM)Collegiate Black Man Wrote:  I may get banned and definintely flamed for this, it ahs to be said. These players are young men who need to learn how to win at the highest level. A lack of D intensity and discipline on O cannot be blamed solely on players, especially seniors. Those traits are obviously something that the players feel comfortable displaying, for whatever reason. Pastner needs to figure out how to lead men, how to command their respect, and how to maintain discipline and intensity within and throughout the program. It seems that these super-talented players are playing at their own terms, not Pastner's. They take plays and even games off, just to suit their whims. This is Pastner's biggest challenge, and I have a my theories why he continues to struggle with these issues year after year, and it has much to do with how he recruits.

Apparently, Pastner promises too much to these 5-star recruits to get them to come to Memphis (playing time, freedom in/from the system, etc.). Pastner seems to be a firm believer that most of his job is recruiting, and that the talent alone will win the ball games. He may have a very high B-Ball IQ, but it matters very little if his players don't listen and take heed. When he promises high school players the world to come to Memphis, it becomes about the players, rather than the school and the team, which morphs over time into challenges with respect and his authority. It has nothing to do with entourages, "Memphis Players", or anything like that. These players just don't respect his coaching style or approach, and it shows. Now how he turns that around is to first define what he wants to do in building a program. What kind of Offense does he want to run, what kind of D? Then recruit players to fit his system, then get those players to understand that his system must be executed with intensity and perfection, and playing time will be based strictly on execution of the system in practice and in games. Don't promise any recruit playing time (which I think is why he keeps running the 4 guard line up at the expense of developing a solid bench, he promised Dixon the playing time).

All in all, I think we as fans need to temper our expectations of a Sweet 16 run out of this team. Pastner hasn't figured out how to coach these players (seems like a broken record as we've been saying the same thing for years). Perhaps an NIT run would get the administration to stop giving him raises, and hopefully Pastner will start fielding offers from other schools. Because he won't be a good coach for at least another 10 years, and we can't afford to wait on him. Time to cut bait.

I did the legwork for you and CUSA_NEWS.

Black coaches with votes in the current poll...

28 Shaka Smart - VCU
34 Johnny Jones - LSU
36 Cumonzo - UT

Cumonzo has beaten a LOT of ranked teams at UT. IF we could somehow manage to hire him our half court offense would be off the charts good. Even if we have to pay UT a $10 million buyout he would be well worth it.

My second choice would be Bruce Pearl. He isn't black, but he has a fake tan and when I see a fake tan, the first thing that I think of is quality.

Priceless. Why hasn't anyone brought this up before today?
Evidence in. Case closed. Do we need a search committee?

If we don't make the sweet 16 by next year
If we don't have a top class coming next year, then it is time to cut bait.

I think we can all agree this senior class has underperformed (1 tournament win for a group of seniors that will never put an NBA jersey on without buying it) North Carolina has been down for years with top 10 recruiting classes, so top class busts aren't uncommon. But if he can't get top recruits on a yearly basis nor have a tournament run then there's no reason to keep him..we aren't a blue blood but we sure as he'll won't be one accepting 1 sweet 16 every decade.

You don't fire a coach who has a team nationally ranked.

(02-03-2014 01:48 PM)hopeum Wrote:  If we don't make the sweet 16 by next year
If we don't have a top class coming next year, then it is time to cut bait.

I think we can all agree this senior class has underperformed (1 tournament win for a group of seniors that will never put an NBA jersey on without buying it) North Carolina has been down for years with top 10 recruiting classes, so top class busts aren't uncommon. But if he can't get top recruits on a yearly basis nor have a tournament run then there's no reason to keep him..we aren't a blue blood but we sure as he'll won't be one accepting 1 sweet 16 every decade.

The class coming in this fall is to fill some hole using largely JUCO guys to prepare for the big class the following year. Pastner has already started strong for that one.

BTW, the kids who signed for 2014 have all looked VERY strong this season.

(02-03-2014 01:49 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  You don't fire a coach who has a team nationally ranked.

...who has a large buyout
...before the post-season
...because CBM says so

(02-03-2014 01:49 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  You don't fire a coach who has a team nationally ranked.

Not unless Phil Jackson has agreed to be the new coach and then....MAYBE.

(02-03-2014 01:49 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  You don't fire a coach who has a team nationally ranked.

Some would. Especially those whose agenda is about skin pigmentation.